Objective (Ancient) Science and Subjective (Contemporary) Science in Beelzebub’s Tales

In Beelzebub’s Tales to His Grandson (BTTHG) Objective Science is presented in terms of the works of the members of the Society of Akhaldan. On of the meanings of this word is “to go against the Moon.” Another of its meaning was expressed as:

“The striving to become aware of the sense and aim of the Being of beings.”

The Aim of objective science is then the study of the sense and aim of existence. For this purpose, the members of the Society divided themselves into seven groups. Here is how the works of this Great Society is reported on pages 299 to 300 of BTTHG:

“The learned members of this first and perhaps last great terrestrial learned society were then divided into seven independent groups, or as it is otherwise said, ‘sections,’ and each of these groups or sections received its definite designation.

“The members of the first group of the society Akhaldan were called ‘Akhaldanfokhsovors,’ which meant that the beings belonging to that section studied the presence of their own planet as well as the reciprocal action of its separate parts.

The members of the second section were called ‘Akhaldanstrassovors,’ and this meant that the beings belonging to that section studied what are called the radiations of all the other planets of their solar system and the reciprocal action of these radiations.

The members of the third section were called ‘Akhaldanmetrosovors,’ which meant beings occupied with the

study of that branch of knowledge similar to that branch of our general knowledge we call ‘Silkoornano,’ and which partly corresponded to what your contemporary favorites call ‘mathematics.’

The members of the fourth group were called ‘Akhaldanpsychosovors,’ and by this name they then defined those members of the society Akhaldan who made their observations of the perceptions, experiencings, and manifestations of beings like themselves and verified their observations by statistics.

The members of the fifth group were called ‘Akhaldanharnosovors,’ which meant that they were occupied with the study of that branch of knowledge which combined those two branches of contemporary science there which your favorites call ‘chemistry’ and ‘physics.’

The members belonging to the sixth section were called ’Akhaldanmistessovors,’ that is to say, beings who studied every kind of fact arising outside of themselves, those actualized consciously from without and also those arising spontaneously, and which of them, and in what cases, are erroneously perceived by beings.

And as regards the members of the seventh and last group, they were called ‘Akhaldangezpoodjnisovors’; these members of the society Akhaldan devoted themselves to the study of those manifestations in the presences of the three-brained beings of their planet which proceeded in them not in consequence of various functionings issuing from different kinds of qualities of impulses engendered owing to data already present in them, but from cosmic actions coming from outside and not depending on them themselves.”

The aim of ancient science contrast with the aim of contemporary science, which is to anatomize the corpse of the Universe without any sequence and order, all and everything at random, as Orage well pointed out in his commentaries on Beelzebub’s Tales. Contemporary science is not nor can it be interested in the study of the sense and aim of existence because for contemporary science there is and there can be no sense and no aim in the Universe. The laws on which contemporary science is founded are the laws of a mechanical universe in which there is absolutely no purpose. Here is how I put it in the first chapter of my book “A Treatise on Cosmic Engineering: A Book of Initiation and Transmutation Written According to Law”:

Contemporary science, in both its abstract aspect as pure science and its more practical aspect as applied science and technology, (even  the specifically-acknowledged human sciences of biology, psychology and sociology), does not provide solutions for the man in crises, that is, for the man seeking a decipherment to the mystery of life. Founded on the so-called postulate of objectivity, which categorically establishes that there is not nor can there be any purpose for the phenomena of Nature (Nature is objective and not projective), contemporary science has no answers for the man searching for his purpose in life and the purpose of Life in general. It certainly has answers for the person interested in understanding the behavior of molecules in a gas, the man who wants to go to the Moon, or the investigator wanting to know how a defective gene can cause a particular disease, or even for the man searching how consciousness is the result of neurons firing at random in a cacophonic concert of subjective noise . But, for the man in crisis, that is, the man searching for the sense and aim of his existence and the sensed and aim of the totality of existence, contemporary science certainly provides no answers.

Contemporary science as we know it is the heir of the atheistic teaching that first appeared in Babylon at the time of the “Building-of-the-Tower-of-Babel. This teaching is described in great details on pages 343-344 of BTTHG and I reproduce it here for your consideration:

“The second Babylonian teaching which then had many followers, and which, passing from generation to generation, also reached your contemporary favorites, was on the contrary one of the atheistic teachings of that period.

In this teaching by the terrestrial Hasnamussian candidates of that time, it was stated that there is no God in the world, and moreover no soul in man, and hence that all those talks and discussions about the soul are nothing more than the deliriums of sick visionaries.

It was further maintained that there exists in the World only one special law of mechanics, according to which everything that exists passes from one form into another; that is to say, the results which arise from certain preceding causes are gradually transformed and become causes for subsequent results.

Man also is therefore only a consequence of some preceding cause and in his turn must, as a result, be a cause of certain consequences.

Further, it was said that even what are called ‘supernatural phenomena’ really perceptible to most people, are all nothing but these same results ensuing from the mentioned special law of mechanics.

The full comprehension of this law by the pure Reason depends on the gradual impartial, all-round acquaintance with its numerous details which can be revealed to a pure Reason in proportion to its development.

But as regards the Reason of man, this is only the sum of all the impressions perceived by him, from which there gradually arise in him data for comparisons, deductions, and conclusions.

As a result of all this, he obtains more information concerning all kinds of similarly repeated facts around him, which in the general organization of man are in their turn material for the formation of definite convictions in him. Thus, from all this there is formed in man—Reason, that is to say, his own subjective psyche.”

Contemporary science cannot help us understand the sense and aim of existence, as it cannot help us to find our place in relation to the sense and aim of existence. Our only real Hope, the Hope of Consciousness that is Strength, is in Objective Science.


Will Mesa


About willmesa

I have been studying and working with the ideas of G.I. Gurdjieff exposed in his Opus Magnum Beelzebub’s Tales to His Grandson. The intention of this blog is to share these ideas with people around the world. For more information about me, please search in Google for Will Mesa
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11 Responses to Objective (Ancient) Science and Subjective (Contemporary) Science in Beelzebub’s Tales

  1. Victor Manuel Herrera says:

    This is useful… scientificists (because they use this new format science as a religion with their own dogmas and cosmology based on “fortunate accidents”) frequently to fit the facts they find into their theories and dogmas try to explain the whole from their parts… that is impossible. Every Wholeness is beyond the sum of its parts, this is part of the “Intentionally Actualized Mdnel In” Function which brings something belonging to the upper cosmos the new octave or process will begin to the finishing of the preceeding. Therefore Ancient Science, knowing all this, tries to explain the Wholenesses departing from the true Wholeness… OUR COMMON FATHER, so any attempt to understand the whole must begin by trying to sense and understand the Being Of Beings…

    Thanks Will, Kind regards.
    Victor Manuel Herrera.

    • willmesa says:

      Hi Victor,
      Yes, that is the whole point, as you well point out. Our contemporary scientists never take into account the manifestation of the Whole and are only concern with the part, and a part that is sometimes very limited. Ancient scientists were always concerned with the manifestation of the Whole. Our contemporary scientists are concerned with making autopsies of the Universe, as Orage pointed out. That is why in Beelzebub’s Tales they are called “learned beings of new formation.”
      Thanks for your comments,

  2. Jone Dae says:

    Hello, Will-
    My name is Jone Dae, and I have tried to contact you via What Is The Work?, but have received no reply from you there. I should explain that Henry Koehler is a friend of mine, through the Work, and that he has shared posts from the 4th Way LA forum with me. I am not on facebook, but I do share Mr. Jae Kamel’s facebook account with him; or rather, vice-versa. It is his account, but my hotmail account is linked with it, such that I can read posts there and post to his Wall, now Timeline, on his account. In these ways, I have been able to follow some of the discussions on the 4th Way LA fourm, and, have become aware of you. You were once on WITW, and, like others, were mistreated there, and so left. Colin Blundell and others have shared this information with me, and I hope that I have understood that correctly.
    I don’t know how many words or characters I can enter here, but there is something that I would like to ask you about, with an explanation; and I am looking for the best way to be in contact with you. So, for now, please let me know when you have received this comment, and if you are willing to communicate with me.
    You come recommnded to me by some on the 4th Way La forum, and I am hoping that we can work together on this webpage.
    Dr. Jone Dae

    • willmesa says:

      Hello, Jone-
      My post comes from a time I was having a serious debate with James Taylor in WITW concerning his Forum Science and the Gurdjieff Work. I was telling him that his science had nothing to do with what is said about science in Beelzebub’s Tales and because I repeated that statement many times, he found a way to delete me from his Forum. Now I no longer am interested in all that old science, not as you are anyhow. Maybe if you tell me what your interest in science is, I will be willing to communicate with you.
      Will Mesa.

  3. Pingback: Science And The Work « jonedae

  4. jonedae says:

    Hello Will,
    It has occurred to me that I perhaps did a poor job of introducing myself, and then jumping right into asking you to co-author blogs with me. Furthermore, the more closely I read the above section, which first drew me to WordPress and to your writings, the more I see things that I would like to respond to, thoughtful statements by you, or thought-provoking ones. So, let me say a few more words.
    Jae Kamel and I produce the Jae Kamel’s URLs (JKU), as a service, which you will understand to mean a form of being-partkdolgduty, but those “at the city level”, as Jan Cox would call it, would just call “a hobby”. So, in brief then, Mr. Kamel and me are both Polymaths, and that is one reason why decided to start that fun project together, the JKU. We met through the HiQ (that is, High-IQ) Societies, which we are both members of; those are the Triple Nine Society (TNS), and the Four Sigma Group. JKU has come to well over 2000 URLs, each annotated, classified, and organized into Categories, in some 18 different Lists totaling over 230 pages now. I can see from your writing and other data, that you’re a serious man, as those who are truly in the Work are, and so, I wouldn’t want you to think that someone frivolous was wasting your time. For instance, I was in some west coast Foundations during the 1990s, and first picked-up BTTG, on my own, in the 1970s, not knowing what it was. My degrees are in Communication Studies, Psychology, and the PhD is in Comparative Religious Studies. Anyway, so just a few quick notes to say, that I value and appreciate the work that you have done here, and do value your time. And I think that you’ll find, that I have a reasonable grasp of the Sciences, such as Astronomy, Physics, and Electronics (even though that’s usually Engineering). So, I’m hoping that you’ll reply soon and let me know what you think of my desire to explore the Omnipresent Okidanokh, and the Electric/Plasma Universe, comparatively. See my blogs, I have given links to sites that introduce the subjects.
    Regarding G’s categories above, this would mainly be in Akhaldanstrassovors, but also would involve Akhaldanmistessovors, Akhaldangezpoodjnisovors (although this one is not obvious at first), and of course, Akhaldanmetrosovors, that is, the Queen of the Sciences; but then one cannot study these sciences without also having studied the Akhaldanharnosovors branches, as well.
    Dr. Jone Dae.

    • jonedae says:

      I should also add, that if you want to look at the Lists, you can find them all here http://bit.ly/qh4KzU , and the Index and Table Of Contents is here http://sdrv.ms/GINLQH. They are all free to view or download. We distribute them directly rather than publicly on a website, for now. However, in 2013, we will have a JKU website, along with a couple of others, but for now, we prefer to control who the Lists go to.
      Jone Dae

  5. jonedae says:

    Hello Will,
    I hope that the posts answered your question, “maybe if you tell me what your interest in science is”. Let me know if they have. I would like to add, though, that I was unable to find anyone serious enough about ideas, and about discussing the subjects and so on, on WITW, to have an adult conversation with, let alone a debate. Of course, I too ran into the “infinite” James Taylor does, as everyone does on the site; he doesn’t get away with as much on 4th Way LA, and puts on a better show for them. On WITW he’s clearly the boss and ringleader there, and he wants to make sure that you and me and everyone knows it. At all events, there was something psychologically aberrant about him, James Taylor. Almost all of his posts were about, putting the other person down, putting them in the wrong, or questioning them, but in an uncomplimentary manner; that is, his wish was to make other people unhappy. To me, that sounds like a schizophrenic. He might be borderline… for example, he seems to have problems in learning and memory, as do schizophrenics. On the other hand, if he’s acting that or pretending that, he does a good job of it; but even if he’s not sick, he just seems sick. Why want to try to put others in the wrong all the time, and act like he’s “Mr. Authority”? He so obviously wants to be “Daddy”, that he just plays that role constantly. Anyhow, I can prove nothing, but the whole thing just seems shcizophrenic to me, and I’ve lived with an worked with dozens of them, over the years, you start to develop intuitions about them. His photo is titled: he’s not upright, he’ almost at a 45 degree angle; wears all black, and provides a black-and-white photo, etc. his homepage in WITW is all black; all that would be only Eccentric, with the OCD way the he rides the site, WITW, etc.
    Anyhow, not to go on about all that. The point was, that I went there to introduce that subject, and found that it was a disgrace and a disaster. There were a few who loved me or loved my work, but they were overwhelmed by the unconscious automata, and their many false-I, Mr. Ego dreams: Martyn Charles, Wry sometimes, and of course Jan Jarvis. Richard Lloyd seemed bipolar or something. Sena was probably the sanest one of the group or regulars.
    If you want to know more about “what my interest in science is”, just read my two blogs and read the websites linked to. That is, your question could mean, “which sciences am I interested in?”, or,”why am I interested in science?”, but you didn’t make it clear what you meant. So, the blogs, the intros, and the websites linked to should answer most of your questions.
    I also noticed that, in the meanwhile, you’ve started a new blog of your own (dated ) on the Okidanokh. That looks like a kind of teamwork to me, and I like it. So, since you’re an electrical engineer, let me know if you can understand the models, experiments, results, or implications of the Electric/Plasma Univers e models and theories. I’ve guessed that you’re qualified to look at these questions, but only you will know for sure.
    Dr. Jone Dae.

  6. Pingback: Plasma/Electric Universe and the Okidanokh…. « jonedae

  7. Pingback: More on Mr. G… « jonedae

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